I think the languages are further apart than US and British English. What intrigues me is the 1990 agreement, which seems generally to have followed Brazilian usage: it’s inconceivable that either the US or the UK would agree to change their spelling at the behest of the other (though I’m surprised Trump has demanded it of Starmer yet). Our Portuguese lawyer was outraged, and insists on maintaining traditional spellings, eg tecto for roof. And our solar panel guru is still Octávio, despite not pronouncing the ‘c’ in his name.
There are many people who are similarly outraged. And it it makes no sense. It was supposed to standardise spelling across Lusophone countries, but it hasn’t.
Thanks for your comment, Philip. I agree that US and British English are far more similar than different. The extremes, say Australia vs. Mississippi, can be impossible, but in most cases it's just fun. I remember when I was in a meeting at Barts and The London, and noting down charming phrases the British faculty used, when I discovered they were writing down my Americanisms!
Trump's cognitive decline is so severe he is far past appreciating any language differences. Even his vocabulary is impoverished at this point.
I have a Brazilian niece named Wanessa, though there is no W in Portuguese. We have to go with our parents' spellings!
The Portuguese usage is closer to the original Latin. So as an English speaker, if you don't know the word, it's easier to guess what "optimo" means, "otimo" less so.
Following the 2011 crisis, a friend of mine established an engineering firm in São Paulo. Much to his (and my) surprise, the Brazilians insisted on having a translator present at meetings because they said they couldn’t understand him.
Em 1992, Paulo Portas disse que Marcelo era filho de Deus e do Diabo. Deus deu-lhe a inteligência e o Diabo a malvadez. Até hoje, ninguém contestou esta definição.
I agree, the similarities and differences between Brazilian and European Portuguese really can be confusing, even for people who have lived with the language for years. And yes, there can definitely be some prejudice on both sides about which variety is “correct.”
Many of your examples are true in a general sense, but in practice things are often a bit more fluid. Some of the words presented as Portugal vs. Brazil differences are actually used in both places, just with different frequency. For example, fechado is also very common in Portugal, not only encerrado, and por favor is widely used alongside se faz favor. And although fila is associated with Brazil, you hear it quite often in Portugal nowadays as well, partly because bicha has picked up slang meanings. But ordering a coffee varies regionally; uma bica is more common in Lisbon, um café elsewhere.
One small point about the orthographic agreement: it didn’t eliminate the c in words like facto in Portugal. The idea was to keep consonants that are pronounced, so Portugal still writes facto while Brazil writes fato.
Pronunciation differences are also interesting. European Portuguese is actually less phonetic, because vowels are often reduced or swallowed in speech, while Brazilian Portuguese tends to pronounce vowels more fully.
Anyway, it's true; the similarities and differences can make moving between them an interesting adjustment.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments, Teresa. Perhaps I should have emphasized more that I'm speaking about my personal experience, and I believe the differences can be more pronounced in the Algarve, where I live.
You are right about fa(c)to, and I have corrected the piece accordingly. I am however correct about elétrico. :)
The open vs. closed vowels are why understanding European Portuguese is so much more difficult for non-Portuguese speakers than the experience in Brazil.
Many people find Brazilian Portuguese easier. I guess it depends on context; as I am surrounded by Northern Portuguese, I've got used to that, but actuallyu always found my mother-in-law's accent from the Ribatejo easiest of all.
Fascinating look at the language differences! A lot of the Portuguese I learned before moving here was Brazilian thanks to a popular language learning app. It was still helpful but I am having to relearn some things. And, one of my first acquaintances here was a young Brazilian woman who I remember mentioning the word “rapariga” to me and being insulted when several people referred to her with that word.
Thanks, Lani! It's funny how people continue to be offended even when they know the differences. One Brazilian family member who lives here in Portugal refuses to say the word "cacete" for bread, she just can't get over the Brazilian meaning (male member). And I think this demonstrates why it's so much easier to curse in a new language--we weren't raised being told those words are dirty!
Another thought, I'm not a fan of all the diacritical changes enacted by the Common Language changes. I'm particularly annoyed by the change from leêm to leem and deêm to seem which designed to make the pronunciation less clear.
A good point--one advantage to Portuguese in general is that pronunciation makes sense--whereas English makes absolutely no sense! Though English verbs are easier . . .
Interestingly, in the official PLA (Portuguese class for foreigners) para levar is taught for take away and fechado is taught as closed even though I have seen both fechafo and encerrado signs in shops. I think, at least in the Algarve, that Brazilian Portuguese is slowly changing the language here, but I doubt the "weird g thing" will ever catch on.
Yes, good points. Language is a living thing and constantly changing. It makes sense that the Algarve has Brazilian influence, since tourism is so important here and so many Brazilians take jobs in hospitality. Though I will say that my Brazilian granddaughter (age 9) speaks totally Euro Portuguese after 3 years here, and corrects her family when we use the "incorrect" forms. Ha!
I think the languages are further apart than US and British English. What intrigues me is the 1990 agreement, which seems generally to have followed Brazilian usage: it’s inconceivable that either the US or the UK would agree to change their spelling at the behest of the other (though I’m surprised Trump has demanded it of Starmer yet). Our Portuguese lawyer was outraged, and insists on maintaining traditional spellings, eg tecto for roof. And our solar panel guru is still Octávio, despite not pronouncing the ‘c’ in his name.
There are many people who are similarly outraged. And it it makes no sense. It was supposed to standardise spelling across Lusophone countries, but it hasn’t.
Philip and Teresa, standardization will most certainly fail when people steadfastly refuse to adhere to it!
Thanks for your comment, Philip. I agree that US and British English are far more similar than different. The extremes, say Australia vs. Mississippi, can be impossible, but in most cases it's just fun. I remember when I was in a meeting at Barts and The London, and noting down charming phrases the British faculty used, when I discovered they were writing down my Americanisms!
Trump's cognitive decline is so severe he is far past appreciating any language differences. Even his vocabulary is impoverished at this point.
I have a Brazilian niece named Wanessa, though there is no W in Portuguese. We have to go with our parents' spellings!
The Portuguese usage is closer to the original Latin. So as an English speaker, if you don't know the word, it's easier to guess what "optimo" means, "otimo" less so.
Following the 2011 crisis, a friend of mine established an engineering firm in São Paulo. Much to his (and my) surprise, the Brazilians insisted on having a translator present at meetings because they said they couldn’t understand him.
Doesn’t surprise me a bit, Paulo! I saw TV news subtitle Marcelo in a beach interview in Brazil!
In the case of Marcelo, I can understand. He can speak for hours without saying anything.
🤣
Off-topic mas é uma boa história sobre o Marcelo.
Em 1992, Paulo Portas disse que Marcelo era filho de Deus e do Diabo. Deus deu-lhe a inteligência e o Diabo a malvadez. Até hoje, ninguém contestou esta definição.
Adorei! Kkkkkkk (brasileiro para LOL)
I agree, the similarities and differences between Brazilian and European Portuguese really can be confusing, even for people who have lived with the language for years. And yes, there can definitely be some prejudice on both sides about which variety is “correct.”
Many of your examples are true in a general sense, but in practice things are often a bit more fluid. Some of the words presented as Portugal vs. Brazil differences are actually used in both places, just with different frequency. For example, fechado is also very common in Portugal, not only encerrado, and por favor is widely used alongside se faz favor. And although fila is associated with Brazil, you hear it quite often in Portugal nowadays as well, partly because bicha has picked up slang meanings. But ordering a coffee varies regionally; uma bica is more common in Lisbon, um café elsewhere.
One small point about the orthographic agreement: it didn’t eliminate the c in words like facto in Portugal. The idea was to keep consonants that are pronounced, so Portugal still writes facto while Brazil writes fato.
Pronunciation differences are also interesting. European Portuguese is actually less phonetic, because vowels are often reduced or swallowed in speech, while Brazilian Portuguese tends to pronounce vowels more fully.
Anyway, it's true; the similarities and differences can make moving between them an interesting adjustment.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments, Teresa. Perhaps I should have emphasized more that I'm speaking about my personal experience, and I believe the differences can be more pronounced in the Algarve, where I live.
You are right about fa(c)to, and I have corrected the piece accordingly. I am however correct about elétrico. :)
The open vs. closed vowels are why understanding European Portuguese is so much more difficult for non-Portuguese speakers than the experience in Brazil.
Many people find Brazilian Portuguese easier. I guess it depends on context; as I am surrounded by Northern Portuguese, I've got used to that, but actuallyu always found my mother-in-law's accent from the Ribatejo easiest of all.
Fascinating look at the language differences! A lot of the Portuguese I learned before moving here was Brazilian thanks to a popular language learning app. It was still helpful but I am having to relearn some things. And, one of my first acquaintances here was a young Brazilian woman who I remember mentioning the word “rapariga” to me and being insulted when several people referred to her with that word.
Thanks, Lani! It's funny how people continue to be offended even when they know the differences. One Brazilian family member who lives here in Portugal refuses to say the word "cacete" for bread, she just can't get over the Brazilian meaning (male member). And I think this demonstrates why it's so much easier to curse in a new language--we weren't raised being told those words are dirty!
I love this!! Hilarious and baffling, I don’t know how you managed to adapt to yet another language!!
Ha, thanks Vicki!
Another thought, I'm not a fan of all the diacritical changes enacted by the Common Language changes. I'm particularly annoyed by the change from leêm to leem and deêm to seem which designed to make the pronunciation less clear.
A good point--one advantage to Portuguese in general is that pronunciation makes sense--whereas English makes absolutely no sense! Though English verbs are easier . . .
Interestingly, in the official PLA (Portuguese class for foreigners) para levar is taught for take away and fechado is taught as closed even though I have seen both fechafo and encerrado signs in shops. I think, at least in the Algarve, that Brazilian Portuguese is slowly changing the language here, but I doubt the "weird g thing" will ever catch on.
Yes, good points. Language is a living thing and constantly changing. It makes sense that the Algarve has Brazilian influence, since tourism is so important here and so many Brazilians take jobs in hospitality. Though I will say that my Brazilian granddaughter (age 9) speaks totally Euro Portuguese after 3 years here, and corrects her family when we use the "incorrect" forms. Ha!
So much fun to read!!
Thank you, Margaret!
Fascinating-obrigada!